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    Deklination von Marken und kompletten Wortneuheiten

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    Beitrag  Admin am Sa Jun 04, 2011 4:27 am

    Hallo,
    ich würde sagen, dass Markennamen wie Sprite, Fanta, Mc'Donalds etc. nicht dekliniert werden. Nur der bestimmte Artikel vor ihnen wird dekliniert, aber ich finde, dass die Wörter selbst dadurch zu sehr verstümmelt würden.
    Das ist auch kein seltenes Phänomen, dass Eigennamen und Marken nicht dekliniert werden; das kommt in vielen Sprachen vor.
    Was haltet ihr davon?
    Mir kam gerade diese Problematik, weil ich dabei bin, Speisen und Getränke auf Gotisch zu übersetzen.
    Natürlich wird es auch hier Ausnahmen geben, sodass in Einzelfällen bei manchen Marken einmal konjugierte Formen vorkommen.
    Liufos goleineis,
    Kevin
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    Beitrag  Friþureiks am Di Jun 28, 2011 10:35 pm

    Hi!
    Eventhough I understand german I prefer answering in english since I handle that one better. I hope no one have any objections.

    I would say it is okay to not decline trademark names in any way in gothic. But I prefer declining most words so maybe I will do that some times by mistake here too.
    E.g. Fanta could if we would use it as masculine noun be considered a weak noun and hence declined as those.
    I drink Fanta would then be either Ik drigka Fanta or Ik drigka Fantan.

    More difficult is it with Sprite which probaby must be spelt that way eventhough it should be pronounced as spráit.
    I don't know how that would be treated. Easiest would be: Ik drigka Sprite.
    In the russian wikipedia I found they use the spelling Спрайт which makes /Sprayt/ (using y for й). Maybe we could spell it Sprait in gothic after all. And then say: Ik drigka Sprait (same in both nominative and accusative).

    When it comes to personal names or names of countries and cities I prefer to always adapt the names to gothic declension system.
    Ik galauba þatei ik saƕ Waldumeri Eljau Lenein þan ik was in Muskaujai. = I think I saw Vladimir Ilyich Lenin when I was in Moscow.
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    Beitrag  Admin am Mi Jun 29, 2011 10:45 am

    After I wrote a long answer and pressed the wrong button got a little flip out and am calm now again here the short form of my answer.
    I totally agree with you to declinate names, countries, towns etc. But concerning the trademarks I am not so sure since they are very short and when declinated they change their appearance more than long words. This might be confusing aswell. On the other hand, older languages have a bigger tention to decline words then their modern equivalents.
    Languages with different writing systems tend more to assimilate trademarks to their pronounciation. But is gothic really considered for us as a different writing system as we mostly write it in latin letters? I’m not even fluently able to read gothic scripture…
    (In german for example we don’t assimilate new words: Beim Downloaden des Songs trank ich Sprite und aß Roastbeef.)
    I just see the problem that if somebody reads: Ik drigka Sprait, he wouldn’t know what Sprait should mean.
    PS: It is totally okay to talk in english here Wink Don’t mind. It belongs to the official languages here.
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    Beitrag  Friþureiks am Do Jun 30, 2011 4:12 am

    I understand your argumenation. But I rather use gothic letter instead of latin if possible. Here for example it is easier to write in latin and a lot of people can't see the gothic letters. Little boxes show up instead Razz

    (Crimean gothic do I prefer cyrillic letters)

    I am not sure how to treat the trademarks. It would be weird to have just one cathegory of words that are indeclinable.

    Ik drigka coca-colan.
    Ik drigka hwiskein.
    Ik drigka vodkan.
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    Beitrag  Admin am So Jul 03, 2011 6:30 am

    Hmmm, okay. Since I'm not thaaat confident in applying rules to such words. So, would you like to make a little list of common trademarks with their declension?
    When I think further, I agree with you, that trademarks should be declined, as it is common in those languages with a strong inflection system. But I don't know how to apply the rules for it, so please be so kind and do such a list and paste it into the Lexik area. Wink
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    Beitrag  Friþureiks am Di Jul 05, 2011 4:20 am

    I can try to make a list of some common trademarks. If you want to maybe you could give some examples on trademarks you would like me to add to this list.

    Purely intuitively I would decline all as weak nouns or a-stems I presume.
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    Beitrag  Admin am Di Jul 05, 2011 7:20 am

    Hmm, let me think. Wink

    Coca Cola
    Sprite
    Fanta
    Dr. Pepper
    Mezzo Mix
    Jägermeister
    Gorbatschow

    Windows
    Linux
    Macintosh
    Apple

    Hmm, it's really hard to think of such things without having a list. XD If you know some more, or a list, that would be great. =P
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    Beitrag  Friþureiks am Sa Jul 09, 2011 3:54 am

    It's not quite as easy as is seemed and I am not sure about how I would like to treat these words yet. A lot of languages that use other letters such as greek and russian do spell it more phonetically and languages with more complex declension system do decline them more or less. I have seen forms in czech for coca cola as 'coca cole'. I also noted that in greek the word Koka Kola is feminine, as it ends in a.

    Here is a try.

    Coca Cola - Koka kola (wm)
    Sprite - Spráit (sn)
    Fanta - Fanta (wm)
    Dr. Pepper - Dr. (Dauktaur) Paippair (sn)
    Jägermeister - Jêgaírmáistar (sm [r-stem as broþar])
    Gorbatschow - Gaurbatsof (sn)
    Singha - Sigga (wm)
    Corona - Kaurona (wm)
    Staropramen - Staraupramaín (sn)
    Stella artois - Staíla artuwa (wm)
    Jack Daniels - Djaík Daínjaíls (sn)



    Windows - Windôs(sn)
    Linux - Linuks (sn)
    Macintosh - Makintos (sn)
    Apple - Apaíl (sn)
    Google - Gûgl (sn)
    Youtube - Jûtûb (sn)
    Fire Fox - Fajaír Faúks (sn)

    Volvo - Baulbo (wf)
    Saab - Sâb (sn)
    Renault - Raíno (wf)
    BMW - Bê aím Bê (???)
    VW - Fulkawagns (sm)
    Mercedes - Maírsêdaís (sn)

    I am not against writing it in the original wat. I have done it myself in a video I made. Then I wrote 'Youtube' with gothic letters ofcourse as it is spelled in english.
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    Beitrag  Admin am Mo Jul 11, 2011 11:14 am

    BMW: The long form of it is: Bayerische Motoren Werke Aktiengesellschaft (BMW AG) Maybe the acronym would be another then?
    And for the list: Thank you very much. If you won't have to add or change anything, I'm gonna upload it on the blog, if you agree. Maybe the mailing list would have fun with it? Or they could take another look at it?
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    Beitrag  Friþureiks am Di Jul 12, 2011 9:41 pm

    You're welcome Smile

    You can use this list how ever you want. Gothic language shouldn't be hold back because some people want to keep it to them selves.
    These words are pretty much how I would say these names in to gothic phonology adepted way. And also spelt there after.

    Here is one thing I'd like to clear out. If you write with latin letters, then the original spelling should be used. If using gothic letters, I prefer to write "phonetically", but even then it is possible to use oroginal spelling.

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